A CONVERSATION with the LEGENDARY JOE LOUIS

By Dan Hernandez

“I just give lip service to being the greatest. He was the greatest.”
Muhammad Ali, Former 3-time Heavyweight Champion of the World


I had the great pleasure of meeting Joe Louis in Los Angeles, California when he was promoting fights at the Moulin Rouge on Sunset Blvd., a one-time high profile night spot turned boxing arena for a short time before its ultimate demise. I must have been about 13 years of age when this meeting occurred and I remember it clearly. Holding court prior to the matches about to begin was “The Man.”

I was in awe as I walked to him, pen & pad in hand, to shake his hand and request his autograph. I recall my hand being enveloped by his and feeling miniaturized, adding to this feeling of smallness was that Joe was leaning on a table in the lobby and still seemed bigger than life. Later, I read that he was 6’1 ½ “ tall and 197 Lbs at his professional best and even if he was 50 to 60 lbs more at our meeting, it made no difference, this guy was Paul Bunyan and all the other super heroes come to life. Frankly, I was surprised that he fit in the arena at all.

Joe Louis, was a man that had a ring record of 68 wins, 3 losses, and 54 knockouts. This man, who defended his heavyweight championship more than any man, in any division, a record of 25 successful defenses and held the title for a remarkable 11 years and 8 months, shook my hand, smiled, and said “Thank you for coming.”

I was reminded of this incident recently when conducting an interview with former welterweight champion, Curtis Cokes. He recalled fighting for Joe once at the Moulin Rouge and shared his experiences. I understood that I missed the boat when I simply said, “Thank you,” in response to Joes warm greeting. I would have liked to ask him so many questions about his life and the cards that he was dealt. Despite understanding that it was not the time or place for questions of that sort, at this point of my life, I regret more the things that I did not do than the ones I did. Regardless of the result.

The conversation with Joe Louis is one that I would have liked to have had. I have used many quotes, albeit, at times out of context, accredited to Joe.

DH: You were born, Joe Louis Barrow on May, 13, 1914 in Lafayette, Alabama. When did you drop the Barrow?

Yes, I quit school in 1932 and started boxing amateur. When I signed up for my first fight, I used such big letters that there was no room on the line to write my last name. Therefore, I became Joe Louis.

DH: I read that you came from a big family. Was it hard growing up?

I was the seventh of eight kids to my mom, Lillie Reese, and when I was just two, my dad, Munroe, was committed to an asylum for the rest of his life. Mom then married Pat Brooks, a widower with 5 kids of his own. When I was 12 years old, in 1926, we all moved to Detroit, Michigan. We lived on Catherine Street in a crowded tenement and I hung out with the gangs and had some problems.

DH: How did you get out?

Well mom made me take violin lessons, but instead I spent the money to learn how to box at the Brewster Gym. I was knocked down 7 times in my first amateur bout in 1933 by a fighter named Johnny Miller. It didn’t matter, I felt boxing was the way for me and stuck with it, I just worked out harder. As a light-heavyweight amateur I had 54 fights within a year and I won 50 with 43 by knockout. I always could punch.

DH: Jack “Chappy” Blackburn didn’t want to train you at first.

There was so much trouble with Jack Johnson, being the first black heavyweight champion of the world that “Chappy” was afraid we’d be in for a lot of trouble. After he saw something special in me he changed his mind and he used to tell me “the science of boxing is to avoid getting hit, but if you do get hit, hit the other fella before he hits you again.” I always did what “Chappy” said.

DH: You had your first pro fight on July, 4, 1934 and were fighting former champion Primo Carnera in June of 1935. How did you move so fast?

I had fought 21 times before I met Carnera and I was ready. My managers, John Roxborough and Julian Black must have known what they were doing cause nobody stopped me from moving up. I scored a TKO over Carnera in six rounds in famed Madison Square Garden. Louis said, “This was my first night in New York and this was the night I remember best in all my fighting. If you was ever a raggedy kid and you come to something like that night you’d know.”

DH: How did you get so strong and develop that big punch?

I used to work at the Eastern Market before school and at Pickman and Dean after school. That was a Detroit Ice company and I believe carrying the heavy blocks of ice (up to 50 lbs.) helped develop my strength.

DH: Joe, you earned $50.00 for your first fight and received $60,433 just one year later for fighting Carnera. Did that put up any red flags?

I know the average salary at that time $1250 a year and I had earned $371,645 in my first 1 ½ in the business. But that’s why I got into the game, “money makes you feel better if you don’t like the stuff,” so it really was never important.
“I don’t like money actually, but it quiets my nerves.”

DH: Later on the root of all your problems was money, wasn’t it?

All my life I gave my money and time away to my friends, to people in need, everyone. I gave my time away to our country. Heck I even gave all the proceeds of some of my fights for the war efforts and they billed me for back taxes on those fights. I never understood. In addition, I dug a hole with, divorce settlements, alimony, and such. I lived pretty high for a long time but it sure came back on me. Joe recalled, “I hope they’re still making women like my momma. She always told me to do the right thing. She always told me to have pride in myself: she said a good name is better than money.” I think I kept my good name.

DH: I think so Joe. Let’s get back to boxing. How did you feel about your loss to Max Schmeling?

“Every man’s got to figure to get beat sometime.” I was careless, too much golf, my trainers told me that a good golf swing was bad for a fighter. Different muscles, different timing. I was cocky, I should have listened better. People asked me if I was afraid to fight Max in our rematch and I said “Yeah, I’m scared, I’m scared I might kill Schmeling.” I couldn’t wait to get back in there, “Let me tell you, that was a thrill. Now, even more, I knew I had to get Schmeling good.”
Winning that rematch by a first round knockout felt really great.

DH: What did you say about Billy Conn before your second fight?

The reporters and everybody was talking about how fast Conn was and how agile he was and I told them, “he can run, but he can’t hide.” And he couldn’t. I got him in the eighth round. But the war and life had taken a lot out of us. The power speed, and heart were gone. I had two more fights, I fought Jersey Joe Walcott and won a close decision the first fight, stopping him in the eleventh round in a rematch. Then I retired in 1948.

DH: Why didn’t you stay retired?

Everything I tried fell failed. Companies, business. and investments. Everything. The only way I knew how to make money was boxing. But I did not have it anymore. I lost to Ezzard Charles in a 15 round decision for the title he had won in elimination when I retired, then I fought and got knocked out by Rocky Marciano in the eighth round on October 26, 1951.

DH: What happened then?

More things I tried failed and I finally gave up hope of ever paying back the I.R.S., but I tried to make money anyway I could. I went on TV game shows, I wrestled, etc. Even when I made some money it went fast. I even tried promoting fights and developing fighters. All I managed to do was get deeper in debt.

DH: Muhammad Ali gave you a huge compliment when he said “When Joe’s in the room, I’m not ‘the greatest’. “ And “I just give lip service to being the greatest. He was the greatest.“
How was it working with Muhammad Ali?

I liked it for a while. He was very good fighter. I worked with Ali and he had good plans, but then, “Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.”

DH: I understand you became a Greeter in Las Vegas.

Yeah, I was down pretty bad financially and an old buddy from the Army, Ash Resnick, gave me a job welcoming tourists to the Caesars Palace hotel, where he was an executive. That helped me keep my head above water.

DH: You knew Frank Sinatra?

Sure, he was a good friend and a boxing fan. I had lots of friends in the entertainment industry. Frank even paid for a famous doctor, Michael Bakey, to perform my heart surgery. Kept me going a little longer.

DH: You had an amazing career. Is there anything you’d like to add to what we have already talked about?

Yes. I loved watching baseball, especially the Detroit Tigers. I also really enjoyed horseback riding and cabinet making. I had a good life. Three wives, one of them twice, two blood children and four adopted children. And even though some things came out wrong I have much pride in the fact that, ‘I made the most of my ability and I did the best with my title.”

DH: Thank you Joe
Note: Joe Louis past away in 1981 in Desert Springs Hospital. He was 66. President Ronald Reagan waived the eligibility rules for burial at Arlington National Cemetery. Louis was buried there with full military honors on April 21, 1981.
Joe’s life and achievements compelled famed New York sportswriter Jimmy Cannon to write “Joe Louis was a credit to his race-the human race.”

Thank you Joe for allowing so many fans to meet you and shake your hand. It was an honor.